3 damaged by terrorist attack. Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C provides Airborne Early Warning & Control and the rapid performance required to make the right decisions in time. AWACS can detect, but our fighters need to be there to investigate the aircrafts and ships detected by our AWACS. Well, you claimed that stealth aircraft are very expensive and are not needed for all roles. Paypal Payment, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/RMAF_Global_Express_MRD.jpg, http://newsassets.cirium.com/assets/getasset.aspx?itemid=79438. ”, “Stealthy aircrafts are needed for countries that wants to attack/invade other countries such as USA and its Western coalitions for oil and its mineral sources.”. this my preference would be the FA/TA-50 All other countries that have purchased or are getting the F 35 are users of the F 16 (also made by LM). The same applies to almost any asset with significant information gathering capability, whether a frigate, UAV, MPA or AEW. Both Italy and UK have purchased the F 35 B because both used to fly the Harrier. Swedish defence company Saab has produced the airborne early warning & control system ERIEYE for total control of the battlefield, & airspace. The order value is 1.553 billion SEK ($157.7 million). “can Malaysia afford to buy the F 35 when we don’t even have the facility and infrastructure and even the experience to own and fly the F 16?”. Both Singapore and Taiwan understandably wants the F 35 B because of its flexibility to be deployed anywhere from their respective island states in case the air force runways are bombed by foreign fighters. It is based on the Saab 2000 aircraft equipped with Saab’s airborne radar Erieye and a range of other sensors. Why I have budgeted usd600 million for 3 AWACS. “Please note that even tho the USN has the F 35 C then why the heck are they still ordering Super Hornets Block 3 for the Navy and USAF operates the F 35 A but they’re still using both F 16s and the F 15 Es and have ordered the F 15 X. Whether edge Taiwan has/had in technology is rapidly narrowing; of course it would want the F-35. What do you want for our future MRCA around 2030-2035? Singapore wants it because it’s policy is to maintain a technological edge over its neighbours and going for the F-35 is the obvious step as part of its plans to take the RSAF to a new level by replacing what it currently has with something superior. Thailand is hoping to upgrade the 340 AEW with new capabilities and control function in the near future. Saab has signed a contract and received an order for the Airborne Early Warning and Control solution Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C. A few things have changed since the time the JSF concept was defined. “Did you know that stealth coating is also expensive?””. Ukraine bought 12 TB2 with 3 ground control stations for usd69 million. Even a hypothetical non-stealthy F-35 would be wonderful to have because of the information it is able to collect, integrate and distribute to other users. Taiwan wants the F 35 B but USA declined in order not to upset China. On The Way …. Or when you claim some countries believe stealth can be easily defeated but are busily developing their own stealth aircraft. Just heard from the Janes defence but il bet It would send to pakistan or South America IMO. La Suède est équipée de 4 appareils de ce type, dénommés S-100B Argus et comportant un radar Erieye sur le dos. Melayu Ketinggalan “LM states that it is stealthy but we don’t know if it is true or not and further more countries like Russia and China are constantly upgrading and creating new anti stealth radars to counter these so called stealthy aircrafts. But stealth is only one quality. I believe we can get 2 sqn worth of LCA and 1 LIFT sqn. @Azlan – What makes you think stealth is the way in the future? F 35 not only is prohibitively expensive to procure but it is also expensive to maintain especially regarding the stealth coating and it works only when it is accompanied by a secondary jet fighter. I would choose to side with Marhalim since he is the news provider so the onus of verity should be onto him and I trust with his journalistic background, he had done his due diligence. As you said japan is already an existing Hawkeye operator, and most of its current support systems for E-2C can be reused for the E-2D. Marhalim had erred on the cost above. 3Ds Max scene rendered with VRay renderer. Note that I’m not suggesting we need a LO aircraft now or that it has to be the F-35; only that at one point in the future we’ll have to go for a current gen platform in other to avoid block obsolescence. Sales of the Saab 2000 were fairly limited. USD 633 million is the contract price up to the date of the article, still not including a lot of other costs, like engineering and other related costs. It’s not in the RMAF’s present wish list and the requirement hasn’t even been registered or approved. The damaged aircraft were subsequently repaired and put back into service. As RMAF is also interested in AEWC aicraft as well it is interesting to note that cost of the single Saab 2000 AEWC is (USD$160 million) somewhat comparable to the cost of a single Hawkeye based on the price of the four Northrop Grumman E-2D Advanced Hawkeye, around about USD$164 million each as ordered by Japan. The global 6000, is an upgraded global express business jet that is currently in TUDM fleet. The solution gives the user detailed situational awareness and can be used for tasks including border surveillance and search-and-rescue operations. Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C is a complete AEW&C system with multi-role and multi-mission capabilities for both military and civil needs. Taiwan needs it because it desires the ability to maintain some level of superiority over China. @Melayu Ketinggalan Wooppss…I might have confused this for the MPA. “Both USN and USAF rejected the F 35 concept from the beginning but the LM lobby is very strong in the Congress so there you go. Later reports identified that customer as Saudi Arabia. So while the F-35 has had a long and expensive development, it would not be accurate to attribute the additional cost to these problems. Sur les autres projets Wikimedia: Saab JAS 39 Gripen , sur Wikimedia Commons Articles connexes Modifier Liste des avions militaires de 1970 à 2000 D'autres avions multirôle: Rafale , Typhoon , F-35 , F/A-18E et Su-35 Liens externes Modifier (en) « Gripen international » , Saab . the saab 2000 can only be had secondhand, which is very hard to find now due to only a total of 63 built. This was accepted because JSF was originally intended for CAS and interdiction- for which STOVL was useful for dispersed operations. ASM – “? Here's a selection. The large STOVL engine enlarged the frontal cross section of the aircraft and hence limited its top speed., and limited the aircraft to having one engine. In early October 2010, Saab Group announced an SEK 4.5 billion (about $671.5 million) contract to supply its Saab 2000 airborne early warning and control system (AEW&C), which includes “a Saab 2000 aircraft” (singular), to an undisclosed customer. USA – F 35 accompanied by the F 22, F 18 and/or F 16. Why is stealth important? “Malaysia does not need stealthy jet fighters as we want to only defend our air space from foreign threats“. So that means something doesn’t add up with the F 35. Unless he has made mistake and owned up, I stand corrected. My bad i mean before we are able to buy this platform cuz lets be real here, rmaf must prioritize other assets procument like LCAs, Uav, Ground Radar and nuri replacement programme first before they can turn their attention into aewcs platform..This priority procurement will at the very least take 2 RMK = 10 years to finish..But i cant deny that RMAF kinda in need of this awacs equipment.. @Joe – Noted on your POV regarding the F 35 but I will stay on the fence regarding the plane that can’t do anything right. Actually I was a bit surprised that the Americans went for one size fits all combat aircraft concept, knowing that mission requirements, doctrine and operations of each service are way different from one another. 1 plane cannot be at 2 different locations at the same time. New missile capabilities against bases and ships have prompted a move towards disaggregation and distributed operations. The antenna reportedly provides coverage out to 450km, with a detection range of 350km even inchallenging conditions. There are 60 Saab 2000 aircraft operating throughout the world in France, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Lithuania, Marshall Islands, Sweden, Switzerland and the United States. Saab 2000 Erieye is a complete AEW&C system with multi-role and multi-mission capabilities for both military and civil needs. Azlan – You went all the way to rebutt what I had said only to conclude in your last paragraph that in the end you suggest Malaysia doesn’t need the F 35. Imo EA is a capability we need to have, in all branches of our military. Never mind the RSAF; the RTAF with its Gripen/Eriye combo is way ahead of us. Saab’s offering to Finland includes advanced Electronic Warfare systems, comprising of a newly developed Electronic Attack Jammer Pod and a decoy missile system. usd 150 million for the havasoj It is based on the Saab 2000 aircraft equipped with Saab's airborne radar Erieye and a range of other sensors. Deliveries will be made between 2020 and 2023. There are lots of parallels. ““F 35 not only is prohibitively expensive to procure but it is also expensive to maintain“”. Saab will carry out the work in Gothenburg, and other places in Sweden. The Super Hornet alone costs around USD70 mil, while F-35C costs around USD100 milion. For me it’s surprising that the F-35 has been hit by various issues. When radar cannot detect the F-35, it is almost like you are blind, you dont know where your opponent is. Super Hornet is 25 years old. Regardless, take a look at the platforms themselves: ”. I don’t think I erred, the DSCS announcement as usual put the whole total package, and the final contract price usually much lower than the announcement. Please would like to hear your thoughts on this. This was stated by Pakistan Air Force (PAF) … 2) MALE UAV, now i am inclined to look at the bayraktar TB2. The industry’s nature is such that due to circumstances concerning the product and customer, further information about the customer will not be announced. And any updates whether it’s getting through? Newer plane designs and tech have rendered these platforms to a somewhat disadvantage of today and in 15-20 years time, totally irrelevant at frontlines. Rafale is 34 years old. Right now data transfer can be done with existing SDR radios (using software systems like the R and S SECOS). ”. You’ve made several assumptions or misconceptions about LO aircraft that are simple untrue….. “your last paragraph that in the end you suggest Malaysia doesn’t need the F 35”. Maya scene rendered with Arnold renderer. The United Arab Emirates is also a customer of Saab products. ASM – “ That wasn’t the case as LM found out the difficulty in designing an aircraft that could meet the wildly””. It does not prevent detection at every angle or every distance, but reduces the distance at which you can detect, classify or engage a stealth platform. “low observable” (a better word than stealth which itself isn’t a panacea) platforms designed from the onset to be operated at a systems level as opposed to a platform level. Saab will carry out the work in Gothenburg, Järfälla, Linköping, Luleå and Arboga, Sweden. If we’re going to limit our discussions to what we can currently afford then there wouldn’t be very much for us to talk about now would there? Your email address will not be published. Reply – we can cannibalise the vip aircraft if needed to enable AWAC and EW aircraft operational. “So tell me Azlan, can Malaysia afford to buy the F 35””. Saab 2000 ERIEYE AEW&C the erIeYe aeW&C is the world’s only operational airborne active electronically scanned array (aesa) radar in service today. Melayu Ketinggalan “Yes it is strange even to me why Australia opted for the F 35 ”. By 2030, we will have quite a number of 5th gen fighters in our region. For my opinion, Saab erieye system is suitable for military and civil securities purpose but E-2 Hawkeye is pure military mission and battle proven, up to Mindef to decides in term of cost, manpower and expertise. UAE has a smaller sea area than malaysia to look for, which would be ideal for them to have both AWACS and MPA capability in one platform. Saab 2000 Price and Orders The price of the Saab 2000 aircraft is around US $ 15 million. Saab 2000: Avion de ligne régional de 50–58 sièges. The engineering costs will be paid by US Navy. F 16s as it is used as aggressors (painted in Russia camouflage) for training purposes. The F-35 and others like it are the way of the future. Nobody is suggesting we rush into it now or that we can afford it. Countries with small STOVL carriers or LHDs can acquire supercarrier-like capability and can train cross-deck with the USN. Turkey is a F 16 user. Melayu Ketinggalan – “Clearly you have not been following all the mishaps that LM are covering up in regards to the F35 debacle.””. http://defence-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DkJdPKlX0AEe6qI.jpg, http://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1s96PvWkAApv4u.jpg. Avionics: Rockwell Collins Pro Line 4 Engine: 2 X Rolls-Royce Allison AE-2100A Diffuse map included with 8192x8192 resolution. 3 Saab 2000 erieye in 2nd batch 2017. costs USD153 million. Can we defend our airspace then without a 5th gen fighter with stealth features? Falcon is 46 years old. For your production or simulation. Air warfare is no longer about which platform has the radar with the longest range or the one which has the best performing ordnance; it’s about who has the better SA: something which hasn’t changed from the days of the Red Baron. AM – Yes it is strange even to me why Australia opted for the F 35 but then again both Australia and UK has never operated the F 16 beforehand so it all comes down to the US lobby and knowing those 2 are strong allies in past US wars. that’s the fly away price of the aircraft. “Multirole and affordable jet fighters like the F 16 (as an example) should be enough to deter and defend.”. 7) 2 more A400M from excess uk, germany or spain stocks. There are lots of parallels. Then there is the EA capability that we need to address too. SHAH ALAM: New contract for Saab 2000 AEWC. @ marhalim Saab has signed a contract and received an order for the Airborne Early Warning and Control solution Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C. Whether it’s a MBT, IFV, fighter or UAS; everything is getting increasingly expensive to buy, run and support; on account on the increased electronics/avionics/systems which all require their own test/support kits and a higher level of manpower to operate and maintain. The Pakistani Saab-2000 AEW&C uses of new generation radar transmit/receive modules which generate around 60% extra output. That wasn’t the case as LM found out the difficulty in designing an aircraft that could meet the wildly different requirements of the USAF, USN and USMC. I don’t think we can ever afford the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye. By your logic, Russia, China, Korea and Turkey would not be developing stealth aircraft of their own. How many AEWC aircraft is RMAF planning on getting? There are 60 Saab 2000 aircraft operating throughout the world in France, … F-16, F-111, Tornado, Starfiighter, etc) that was not hit by technical difficulties, cost overruns, delays, etc. Cette section est vide, insuffisamment détaillée ou incomplète. Air Forces Monthly, however, reported “it is likely” that the Saab announcement pertains to the sale to Pakistan. @… Anyway, the Erieye is already combat proven with Pakistan air force, a fellow service that we can learn from in operating the Erieye. “s but please do not divert from us talking about the F 35 for Malaysia””. We cannot expect as a new AWACS operator we can spend only that much for the capability. ASM – “think the F-35 is too expensive for us””. Please re-read carefully the defence news article. BTW, did Northrop Grumman ever offer the Advance Hawkeye to malaysia ? SAAB has provided plenty of EW systems for Malaysia, including our EW threat library system and training. Unless our military is seamlessly integrated with the us military like Japan, It would probably be much more easier if we go for non-us AWACS system. If designed for today’s anticipated Pacific battlefields, the aircraft would probably have a longer range and higher speed, two engines and greater internal stores carriage. With the availability of the AWACS system, we need to also improve on our air policing strategy. Furthermore Australia was granted the EA Growler by the US Congress which further shows the favoritism shown. Name me a single fighter/bomber programme (F-14, F-15, B-1. Hmm…. Where are the USN and USMC F-16s? “F 35 not only is prohibitively expensive to procure but it is also expensive to maintain especially regarding the stealth coating”. So a country’s ability to operate the F-35 is not decided only by whether it can afford it or handle the technical complexity, but mainly whether the services can make the organisational changes to fully utilise its capabilities. In the first place, there was no “F-35 concept.” There was only the JSF concept which defined all the requirements, including the STOVL requirement, long before the competition was opened to Boeing and LM. 1) additional 6x EC225LP used commercial to complement the EC725 Saab 2000 AEW&C : Variante AWACS équipée d'un Radar à antenne active Erieye et de systèmes de conduite de mission associés. Actually the RMAF first started seeking a AEW platform as far back as the mid – 1980’s. The order value is 1.553 billion SEK. Unlike bullets, bombs or missiles, electronic attack (EA) can be considered a non-lethal way of attacking our adversary, along with cyber attack capability. Naturally they’d want the F-35 for a number of reasons – not that they’re spoilt for choice anyway, “works only when it is accompanied by a secondary jet fighter””. If you want to form conclusions as to comments made by others; at least form the right ones. It is unclear when operations began with the aircraft, as neither Saab nor the Saudis will discuss the acquisition of these aircraft. It is already operationally used, and the cost for ukraine is quite affordable imo. Related products. First of all “stealth” (LO is a more accurate term) is not a panacea; doesn’t make a figure totally undetectable. But that value is only for the aircraft and not inclusive of plenty of other things that is needed to operate the capability. The Defence News story had superseded the DSCA announcement. These information-clearing capabilities were never intended or imagined to come from the small, affordable platform that JSF defined in the 90s. It is like your eyes. ASM “The JSF concept itself was quite ambitious; a common airframe for all services, stealthy, cheap enough to be procured in large numbers (to replace the F-16s) by the US and its allies. ” Northrop Grumman has been awarded a $164 million firm-fixed-price MODIFICATION TO AN EXISTING CONTRACT for a new-build E-2D Advanced Hawkeye aircraft ”, ” …the total procurement cost for Japan for the four E-2Ds to $633 million, not inclusive of engineering and other related costs. Higher operating ceiling of 9,150 ma and increased radar output allows Pakistani Erieye AEW&C to detect both air and maritime targets much longer ranges then the first and second generation Erieye systems. As per Saab press release. The E-2D it must be noted is a new airframe compared to the Saab 2000 which is … RMAF Cap 55 plan call for a squadron of AEWC aircraft well into 2030s, however, so the contract for the Saab 2000 is definitely not ours. Even though we intend to get the LCA, we still consider it necessary to have an MRCA. So tell me Azlan, can Malaysia afford to buy the F 35 when we don’t even have the facility and infrastructure and even the experience to own and fly the F 16? If you say no to F-35, what is your substitute for that? It is based on the Saab 2000 aircraft equipped with Saab’s airborne radar Erieye and a range of other sensors. Singapore is getting the F 35. usd 600 million for 3x erieyes They’re also F 16 user. Is it written anywhere that an F-35 operator must operate the F-16 first? Taiwan for decades operated on the basis that although it has a numerical inferiority with China; it had a technological superiority; this is no longer the case. For me I would prefer the AWACS and MPA to be on 2 different aircraft. The order value is 1.553 billion SEK ($157.7 million). While the F-35 with its advanced AESA LPI radar, can pick out any non-stealth fighter while itself cannot be detected. 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